glass_icarus: (Default)
[personal profile] glass_icarus
Here in the United States, there is an English as a Second Language exam that they administer to multilingual students. I have always had a certain facility with languages; even though I moved to America two years before I was enrolled in kindergarten, my familiarity with English was so far beyond my peers that I never had to take it. I was reading chapter-books and learning dinosaur names by the time most of my classmates were learning to spell. I have no memory of even being approached on the subject of ESL, although eighteen years have passed since then and my memories of elementary school have always been rather hazy and attached to a feeling of general boredom/isolation.

I speak, I write, I read English as if it were my first language because I love languages, yes. What the ESL test and the American school system don't recognize: I do so also because I lost my mother tongue when I was three.

My clearest memories of my early childhood are these:

I never went to Chinese school on Saturdays with all the other children in our area. My mother tried to take me once, but I was so intimidated that I cried inconsolably until the teacher called her to take me home again, not an hour later. I never set foot in that school again. My mother tried to teach me herself, for a while: there were a few times that she brought out her brush pen and ink and wrote strokes for me to copy on paper. I dreamed of music though, as a child, and because my parents loved me and were indulgent, I spent all my weekends thereafter learning to play the piano and the violin, until the pens and inks were eventually put away.

I went to kindergarten, curious and very small and as shy as I was eager to make friends. At the age of five, I wanted to be like everyone else, so much so that on my first spelling test, I misspelt "apple" deliberately so I wouldn't stand out too much. My teacher knew that I knew better, so she confronted me in front of my parents. My mother shouted at me then, not understanding, I think, my need to be liked; was it not better to excel? Was it not better to learn more, better, faster than everyone else, so that I could go somewhere, become something? Something beyond all the other (white) children, she didn't say; somewhere I would be recognized and lauded despite the color of my skin. I realize these things only in retrospect, of course. Back then, I simply nodded and turned in test after perfect test, and mostly sat alone reading my books during recess.

There are Chinese picture-books that I remember reading before I ever set foot in an American school. I had a set of books about a family of mice, beautifully illustrated; I had a set of Chinese folktale books. I vaguely recall a book with animal butts as well, though the subject escapes me now. I even had an audio version, in Mandarin, of Journey to the West, which my parents played in the car sometimes when we were driving long distances. I'm certain there were many others, lost to time and circumstance. My parents read to me on occasion because it was a thing we all enjoyed, but I spent many afternoons sitting by myself, happily devouring page after colorful page, word after beautiful word.

My mother likes to tell these stories: how she taught me over 2,000 characters when I was a baby, using flash cards, and how I pointed to each word with perfect comprehension as she spoke. How I read piles of books voraciously- both silently and aloud- all by myself. How I once recited flawlessly all the Tang poetry I'd heard from my mother. How I once spoke Mandarin with a perfect Beijing accent, that curl of the tongue which neither of my parents possess. How the sum of my knowledge, at three years old, was greater than the pieces left now to crumble slowly in my hands. If I picked up one of those picture-books today, I wouldn't be able to read a single page, in its entirety.

There are some losses that I cannot now remedy. I am ten years past the optimal learning period, and though my language skills are not entirely lost to disuse, the grace by which I learned during childhood, at least, is long gone. I have tried both in high school and in college to reclaim my language; both times, I had to prioritize absorbing science over re-absorbing my mother tongue. But even if I started, at this very minute, to learn Chinese again, I could not now recreate the wonder of reading those picture-books for the very first time, or ask my grandparents- three of them now dead- to tell me their family stories. I could not now think or dream in Chinese the way that I do in English, the thought-patterns of my early childhood irrevocably overwritten. Even if I started now to learn the poetry of Du Fu and Li Bai, most of the nuances and secondary meanings would still be filtered through the knowledge of my tutors or of my parents, absorbed secondhand. Even if I reclaimed my mother tongue today, I would always have these caveats, my mastery always fragmented and not-quite-complete.

English was my second language, but it might as well have been my first. Even though I was never tested, these are the scars that I will always bear.

Date: 2009-04-06 10:29 pm (UTC)
such_heights: amy and rory looking at a pile of post (Default)
From: [personal profile] such_heights
This is really powerful - thank you for writing it.

Date: 2009-04-07 12:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
&hearts! haha, i always seem to have more to say about stuff like this than i think i do.

Date: 2009-04-07 01:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vanishing-cake.livejournal.com
Oh, that's sad.

I've heard it's easier for us to learn other languages than for non-English speakers to pick it up, because we borrow words and phrases from so many places, have so many colloquialisms that make no sense. I don't know if it's true, but it is a pity we don't start teaching kids different languages earlier. We had a Spanish teacher in first grade for a few weeks, but when funding was cut, that was the first thing to go.

The US school system doesn't handle languages well, and I'm sorry you ever had to be so aware of being not like everyone else just because of your skin color.

Date: 2009-04-07 02:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
i think there are a lot of factors besides the school system that force immigrant parents to choose what to pass on to their kids, language being one of those things. there's just not enough time, for one thing, and it's often difficult enough for kids/families to adjust to life in the US without the added... burdens? that's not quite the right word, but i honestly don't know if there is one. there are no easy answers.

also, the claim about English speakers being able to learn other languages more quickly is something i am automatically wary of, because despite the complete weirdness and the bastardization/co-opting of other languages into English, it just... sounds like a Western Brit-American pride kind of thing, you know?

Date: 2009-04-07 05:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vanishing-cake.livejournal.com
I didn't mean that, for instance, an English speaker might learn Italian more faster than a French speaker. French and Italian are sister languages...or so they say. Just that the English language is so huge and borrowed a lot that the people I see in ESL seem to struggle a lot with the bulky and sometimes impractical uses we have for language. It might be a pride thing, or maybe not. I dunno. Some of the people we met in Oslo or Tallinn spoke better English than anyone I've ever met. If Americans wanted to be really snobbish, we could rename our dialect something less Brit-y. :)

Obviously there are other factors besides the school system, too. It's just that often students don't start learning other languages until high school, and then it's harder, and kids in ESL are taking English lessons from a person who probably doesn't speak their language. We could do better. We ought to try and do better.

Meh. I haven't thought about it all that much, and I have class in a bit, so I haven't got a lot of time to organize my thoughts. That will have to do.

Date: 2009-04-07 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
the English language is so huge and borrowed a lot that the people I see in ESL seem to struggle a lot with the bulky and sometimes impractical uses we have for language.- well, yes, this. *g* plus, pronunciation "rules" in English are really more exceptions than rules, or alternatively, really complete anarchy. i know people have trouble with a lot of that, but i guess it's hard for me to form an opinion one way or another without knowledge of a whole hell of a lot more languages than i do, y'know?

i agree that learning languages earlier would be a plus for all concerned, but for people who grow up in multilingual homes in the US, the pressure to focus on English is always going to be much higher than the pressure to keep/deepen their knowledge of their mother tongues. it's a matter of survival- in class, in terms of general communication, information purposes, etc.- rather than a matter of learning, and that's a completely different problem than when to introduce language classes, yeah?

Date: 2009-04-07 04:28 am (UTC)
ext_17713: sun and clouds and the illusion of wings. (Default)
From: [identity profile] elsane.livejournal.com
This is deeply moving. Thank you for sharing.

Date: 2009-04-07 02:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
thank you! &hearts

Date: 2009-04-07 05:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wanderlight.livejournal.com
This is lovely and moving. It makes me want to cry, in a way.

Date: 2009-04-07 02:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
&hearts &hearts!

Date: 2009-04-07 08:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kispexi2.livejournal.com
Tell me about your Chinese. Is it Mandarin? (I think all written Chinese is Mandarin, no? But there are spoken dialects?) Have you tried to re-learn, recover, the language? (It seems almost incredible to me that you wouldn't have, since you love language so much and if you haven't, that's really indicative of, well, so much ...)

Date: 2009-04-07 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
ah. Chinese has only one writing system (well, technically two, thanks to the Cultural Revolution, but the simplified character system is a bastardization of the traditional system and erases much of the history behind each word- why yes, i am bitter and have a thing about memory/history, why do you ask? :P), but the words are pronounced differently in each dialect- Mandarin, Cantonese, etc.- although the meanings remain the same. quite ingenious, really. :D my family speaks Mandarin, and the older generations speak Taiwanese, which i understand only bits and pieces of- my parents talk to each other in Taiwanese when they don't want us to know what they're talking about, but even though i can often decipher the gist of their conversations, it's a comprehension that doesn't quite involve the understanding of what each individual word means, if that makes any sense. *g* i don't know how to explain it beyond that.

i have tried to pick it up again, but i had to give up both times because of all the other demands on my time- the AP track in high school and the biochem major requirements in college had to take priority in terms of Grand Learning Plans. learning Chinese takes a lot of work and memorization- each word has a different character, sometimes characters can be read one way (meaning and pronunciation both) in one context and a different way in another, stroke orders are important, the sheer amounts of vocabulary- yeah. there was just no room in my head/no time in my schedule to learn Chinese and, say, biology, chemistry, physics, etc. at the same time.

Date: 2009-04-07 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kispexi2.livejournal.com
each word has a different character, sometimes characters can be read one way (meaning and pronunciation both) in one context and a different way in another, stroke orders are important, the sheer amounts of vocabulary

This is what puts me off about Japanese. Three different ways of writing plus the dropping of the subject and different registers ... I so know what you mean about the optimum language learning days being behind you. That said, I do love words and I can't help but try to make sense of them. One of the things I loved about Firefly was the inclusion of Mandarin and I do remember quite a lot of it. Of course, I pronounce it like a US/Canadian actor, though. Whenever we go to our local Asian hypermarket, I'm so tempted to say xie-xie but with tone being important, I'm afraid I'll end up saying something really rude!

Date: 2009-04-07 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
hee! well, the grammatical/tonal stuff doesn't bother me, since i've grown up hearing it; it's the actual vocabulary and writing systems that keep me from intensive study, mostly. (i wanted so badly to study languages in college- Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Finnish, etc.- but the amount of work i already had was so staggering that i just... couldn't justify it, haha. i ended up taking conversational French, just so i wouldn't completely lose the five years of it i'd done in high school.)

Date: 2009-04-08 11:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] secretsolitaire.livejournal.com
I'm really enjoying these posts -- they're always moving and eye-opening. Thanks for sharing with us.

Date: 2009-04-08 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
thank you! :)

Date: 2009-04-12 01:22 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
Your briliant post prompted me to write this. (http://drelfina.livejournal.com/46237.html)

Thank you so much.

Date: 2009-04-12 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
... omg, your post. &hearts especially the part about grandparents, because- yes, that. thank you for sharing it!

Date: 2009-04-12 02:15 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
Yours is so very poetic and it hurts to think that you'd lost your first language to that point.

Sometimes I wish I'd learnt my chinese in Secondary school - I was lazy, I didn't like learning langauges, and I made my teacher cry.

And now I regret it.

Date: 2009-04-12 02:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
i don't know, i just- i do love music, a whole hell of a lot, and i can't say that if given the opportunity i wouldn't have made the exact same choices. piano and violin were a huge shaping force in my life, for one thing, and i did manage to avoid a lot of the catty drama that the Chinese school kids were involved in. still, i feel like i should have made more of an effort to learn Chinese while i was still little and didn't have other responsibilities and demands on my time. :\

Date: 2009-04-12 02:28 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
Yeah... well. I never regretted being very into reading - it's where I am now. But I do regret not trying to learn Chinese. I have a workable vocab and understanding, mostly because I watched drama serials at home (Singapore's good for that at least).

But my reading is poor, and my writing absymal. I've forgotten a lot of vocab now, because I haven't watched dramas for a long time and now... well. Sometimes I wish.

I rememeber when my father tried to read one of his favourite books to use a bedtime story.

he had to stop and explain each and every sentence, because we didn't get it.

He only ever got through the first half of the page describing the flag in the scene.

after that he gave up.

Date: 2009-04-12 02:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
oh, we are SO agreed in terms of the reading part. *g*

my parents spoke- still speak- Mandarin at home, mostly, but when i was growing up in the US, we didn't have access to Asian TV. aside from what books my parents owned, we had some newspapers at the Asian supermarket, a tiny section in the public library, and that was it, so speaking/listening comprehension is still pretty much all i have.

i remember my mom trying to teach me how to address my aunts' and uncles' birthday cards, and failing so hard at decent handwriting. she showed me how to write my real name once, but i just didn't get it- and after that she just gave up and told me to sign my nickname on everything. (and now, pathetically enough, i can't remember what the characters are for my given name. just the family name.)

so many regrets sometimes, and i only find more as i get older.

Date: 2009-04-12 02:50 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
Oh that's so sad...

My mother can't write her name. My DAD writes it for her.

We can, at least, write our names (the advantage of forced chinese learning in school till we're about 16), and basic grammar and...

But I miss the Chinese so much now. I can't read even a webpage, I go panicky about reading a wikipedia page in chinese.

Do you know your hanyu pinying for your name though? I could try and figure out what it is?

Date: 2009-04-12 03:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
My mother can't write her name. My DAD writes it for her.-- oh, ow. :((

you know, it's not even the wikipedia that gets me these days? it's freaking FACEBOOK, and all the Asian friends- hell, even some non-Asian ones- who post on each other's walls in different languages that i can't read. and okay, i can recognize stuff like "happy birthday," but when even a white boy pwns me in terms of using my own language... yeah. (granted, he spent some of his childhood in HK, but still.)

yu as in jade; han as in "nei han..." unfortunately for me, my mom has a rather large literary streak, so none of the people i've given my Chinese name to actually recognize the second character from this context. *headdesk*

Date: 2009-04-12 03:05 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
hmm.

玉涵? Nei han as in nei - inner? It SOUNDS familiar, but I probbaly only ever heard it. Could it be 内涵 (http://us.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddictbasic&wdqb=%E5%86%85%E6%B6%B5&wdrst=0&wddmtm=1&wdeac=1)'s han?

Oh god, Facebook. I don't dare. I've tried going on Chinese websites and I just STARE at them. I barely can make out any words, it's like the whole page is attacking my eyeballs.

It makes me feel extreme sympathy for those whose first langauage is not English.

Date: 2009-04-12 03:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
eeee! i'm not 100% positive as it's been so long, but that definition looks very, very close to my mom's attempts to explain it to me, way back when. :D thank you! &hearts &hearts

it's like the whole page is attacking my eyeballs.- oh man, yes. and while the computerized characters are easier to decipher than anyone's scribbly handwriting, they are generally also very small and make my eyes hurt if i look at them too long.

Date: 2009-04-12 03:27 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
Since they're the traditional version as well, I hope it's the right one!

If it is, it's a very good name, I think. Do you have sibs or cousins your generation? Mine is 瑞美, and 瑞 is the generation name for my cousins on my father's side. My name sucks it's pretty generic and awfully common. I like my sister's better. My brothers get all the cool things like virtues like... well, virtue, strength and light.

You can try ctrl++ on your browser to try and make the webpage bigger. But it still feels like EYEBALLULAR ATTACK HOOO.

Date: 2009-04-12 03:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
ahaha, my sister and i are two out of at least twenty-three cousins, no joke! (i say at least because i can't remember if i added my uncle's twins to my original count, or if that was the original count.) my sister's name was, according to my mom, much less thought-out; it's yao as in medicine, yun as in cloud. *g*

i feel like a lot of girls get 美 in their names, yes? it's a pretty word, but... can't daughters be associated with other characteristics than beauty? ;P still, don't feel too bad- i have a friend whose name is zhou mo as in, literally, weekend!

Date: 2009-04-12 04:04 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
Medicine cloud? 葯云?Well, that's different.

A lot of girls get that name I guess. My sister got the name man 蠻 which can mean barbarian/wilful. There WAS a good meaning to it that my father explained but it's slipped my mind now. Hers is more unique. *makes face*

Girls get flowers, or beauty... if the parents are lazy. On the other hand, girls DO get some really pretty/meaningful names too. Like my mother's - though you'll just have to take my word for it that it IS pretty, because I can't remember it.

Weekend is... 周末? It LOOKS nice though. :P

Actually, that's a very interesting name, just like calling someone Rake or Door in one of those really odd fantasy novels. My friend had a relative - grandmother, I think - whose name implies something like "I had a daughter and can't throw her away, so I might as well keep her".

Which is ... horrible.

Date: 2009-04-12 04:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
hahaha, when my parents first explained this to my sister they got the LINEFACE OF DOOM. my sister was like... so, who was channeling the Native American-style naming again? (i suspect it was my dad; he had the weirdest look on his face after she asked.)

ooh, that's an interesting choice! i think it's a strong name even without the other meaning- i don't suppose the "barbarian" reading would be appreciable to most, but "willful" i actually like a lot.

I had a daughter and can't throw her away, so I might as well keep her-- ! i will never understand that mentality. D: D: D:

Date: 2009-04-12 04:40 am (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
LOL LINEFACE. Hahahaha. That's hilarious. It is also something straight out of a martial arts novel. >.> Probably a perfect name for someone who can Heal All Things And Kick Ass While Doing It.

Yeah, My sister got the real cool name- they spent so much time trying to decide on naming her, that she got a pretty meaningful non-Chinese name too. I like my non-Chinese name, but my Chinese on e apparently ran out of inspiration or something.

And throwing away a daughter mentality SUCKS. >.<

Date: 2009-04-16 10:26 pm (UTC)
ext_34193: Blind cave fish, words "Will dissect for food" (Default)
From: [identity profile] drelfina.livejournal.com
found out the name of that poor girl. 罔市 (turns out it's my friend's grandmother's name). This means, literally, forcing oneself to keep the child.

if a girl has the name 满 in it (Full/enough), it means that the family has had enough girls, and want a boy next kthnxbye.

God, I hate the patriarchy.

Date: 2009-04-12 01:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wingstodust.livejournal.com
Hi! Um, I'm here from after reading your 'personal etymologies' because I've liked everything you wrote for the remyth project, so I thought I'd check out your lj and reading this post made me go *.*

Because this is just... This could have been me, except that I wasn't great shakes with languages and it took me a long time to gain mastery over English, and French, and my Mandarin and Cantonese speaking knowledge (forget *reading* chinese characters...) fell apart and got buried in the process. I didn't regret giving up my Chinese in favour of English and French back when I was young, because, um, if I had to be honest about this, my poor handle on English and French was one of the main reasons why I was harassed for about two years of my early elementary school life. ^^;; Um, this kind of makes me sound cowardly, and I'm not proud... And I want to reclaim my language but it's just, it's not the same. =/

^^;; *coughs* but yes, I love this post. I may want to link it in the future, if it's okay with you? =D;;

Date: 2009-04-12 02:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
hi! :) haha, i just saw your other comment. i'm glad that these posts are relatable to you, even though at the same time it kind of sucks.

I want to reclaim my language but it's just, it's not the same. =/-- yes, i kind of know what you mean. when i think about learning a new language, like Russian or Japanese or even reviving my five years of French, it's really exciting, you know? but whenever i want to go back to Chinese, it feels almost like a drag- it sort of makes it harder when you recognize even 0.01% of the vocabulary, or know how things should sound/be pronounced, you know? and then there's this huge weight of guilt/frustration/shame and shouldn't i already know this?, and just- ARGH. :\

... er, so. i do have a whole lot of baggage relating to this, a lot of which has recently crystalized, yes. *sheepish* anyway, link away if it pleases you!

Date: 2009-04-12 02:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wingstodust.livejournal.com
and then there's this huge weight of guilt/frustration/shame and shouldn't i already know this?, and just- ARGH. :\

Oh gawd, yes, that's exactly it!!!! (*.* You're so much more eloquent than I am about this... I've always had a hard time putting these feelings into words and there, you said it perfectly.) The whole feeling of we should know all this already and the fact that we don't, or at least aren't picking it up fast enough means that we've failed, and this kind of feeling... You don't get it when you go and learn new languages, languages that are less personal. And that feeling of shame makes me rather not face learning Chinese. Learning other languages, even if it's not as close to my heart, at least I don't feel so... Frustrated when facing it, every single time. And I dunno, Chinese would be the last language I want to fail at learning (probably BECAUSE it was original my mother tongue and it gets all this stigma attached to it because of that) when I try to learn it seriously, so there's all this pressure and ARGH.

Of course, it doesn't mean that I'm going to give up learning chinese (*is currently attempting to self-teach due to friends who can speak it motivating/shaming/bribing me into learning*), but there are always those days when I think 'why is it taking so long to learn this' and yeah... Those feelings of shame would just flood back and I remember why I didn't want to try and learn chinese for so long. x.x

Date: 2009-04-12 02:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glass-icarus.livejournal.com
Chinese would be the last language I want to fail at learning- yes! and i know we can succeed if we have time enough/try hard enough, but the associated feelings for learning Chinese just... drag me down, whereas for any other language the sheer excitement of hey, new and shiny! would keep me going when i started to get tired.

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just another fork-tongued dragon lady

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